I have often wondered about percentage numbers being hyphenated when preceding a noun.
Example A. We have a 20-percent inflation rate.
Example B. We have a 20 percent inflation rate.
My overloaded brain is telling me that it should be Example A. I never see it that way, though. I think that "20 percent" is almost like a descriptive adjective for "inflation rate." What do y'all think about hyhen usage with percentages?
Jennie, just saw your question about percent with the hyphen. Morson says to never put the hyphen with percents like that. She says it is because it is a ratio. I have no idea what that means, but I do agree that it doesn't need the hyphen.
Hey, thanks for that, Keith. I am going to have to get me a copy of Morson's English Guide for Court Reporters. It seems I have every other reference book ever made, but when the Internet came, I quit buying hard-copy books.
I see it is available on Amazon, but it's over 100 bucks. They do offer it on Kindle. You know, if I could get a bunch of reference books on a Kindle, I might buy one. I can see how that would be handy having a bunch of reference sources in one Kindle by my desk.
Hi, Roxy! Yeah, I'm sweating it big time. It's the timecoding that's a PITA
Thanks for the reply on the "half a dozen." :-)
Did you receive the latest Jane Strauss Grammar Book "English Tip of the Week" e-mail about "onto" and "on to"? Wow! That was a great tip she shared. I always get those two confused.
For those who may not have received it, here's a copy-and-paste:
On to vs. Onto
An inquisitive reader asked the following question:
When do you use on to vs. onto?
Answer: Use onto as one word if you can add up before on.
Example: He climbed (up) onto the roof.
Example: She held on to her child in the crowd. (She did not hold up her child.)
Thanks, Marla, for the reply. I always stumble on these kinds of things when they come up in transcripts. It is nice to have this forum to fall back on for help! :-)
EnglishTip of the Week
Effect vs. Affect
Knowing whether to use effect or affect may not qualify you as a genius, but you will be demonstrating an understanding about a grammar issue most people find perplexing. I trust that the strategies offered here will clear up any confusion you have had.
Rule: Use the verb effect when you mean bring about or brought about, cause or caused.
Example: He effected a commotion in the crowd.
Example: She effected a change in procedure.
Rule: Use the noun effect when you mean result.
Example: What effect did that speech have?
Rule: Also use the noun effect whenever any of these words precede it: a, an, any, the, take, into, no.
Note: These words may be separated from effect by an adjective.
Example: That book had a long-lasting effect on my thinking.
Rule: Use the verb affect when you mean to influence rather than to cause.
Example: How do the budget cuts affect your staffing?
Rule: Affect is also used as a noun to mean emotional expression.
Example: She showed little affect when told she had won the lottery.
Thanks for the GREAT English Tip of the Week, Rosalie. I usually recognize these two words okay, but I do have problems recognizing when "affect" is used as a noun. Fortunately for me, I guess, "affect" doesn't get used very often as a noun.
Two words I see punctuated incorrectly quite often when proofing transcripts today are "follow up" and "follow-up."
Example for "follow up": I will follow up on that lead.
Example for "follow-up": After the meeting, I will send you a follow-up.
Example for "follow-up": The doctor said I need a follow-up examination.
"Follow up" with no hyphen is the verb. "Follow-up" with the hyphen is the noun and/or descriptive adjective preceding the noun.
Regarding "follow up" and "follow-up," if you haven't already, you can add to your dictionary an entry with "a follow-up" so that it always trans right. Takes the thinkin out of it on the job. Also, "the follow-up."
I do "attorneys' fees" because normally there's more than one attorney involved in a case. But if you Google "attorneys fees," you'll see it mostly comes up "attorney's fees."
Thanks, Marla. I agree with your reasoning. I think I do attorneys' fees usually, but sometimes I waiver between the two, depending upon whether the sun is shining or not or if I have my favorite slippers on. I guess I'll try to be consistent and stick with attorneys' fees, like workers' comp.
Rotflmao! Thanks, Jody! Lol! Waiver just rolled off my fingers so easily I didn't even think twice! That's why an awesome proofer is priceless. Um, you wanna job? :)
I am wondering how you would punctuate the following example. I have seen it punctuated in several ways and I really don't know what is the correct punctuation. I have looked it up in a variety of references, and there is no solid answer that I can find.
When a witness or attorney trails off but is really asking a question.
Example: You said it was ...? or You said it was -- or You said it was?
That seems like a personal preference to me. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Maybe you could ask your favorite attorney if they have a preference.
Thanks, Quyen. I have been actually doing it with the . . . ? because I have seen it that way in books, but I didn't know if there was really a right/wrong way. I should have looked more carefully in Gregg's! They always have the answer, I just don't always have the patience :)
I actually just bought a new Gregg's, as my old one was in tatters. I've had it for well-over 15 years, so an update was necessary. I just have to now sit down and move all my markers to the new book. I haven't had the chance to sit down and read it yet, but soon! My other favorite is 1, 2, - by Louise Gilman. Just ordered a new copy of that as well. Sometimes it's just easier (because I am that lazy!!) to throw a question out to the masses and see what happens.
But I truly thank you for taking the time to look this up. I can now tell my reporters the correct way to punctuate this common occurrence in their transcripts.
I've been wanting a new Gregg's for a long time. I've had mine 10+ yrs. now from when I was in CR school. Even my marker tabs are all faded and dog-earred, and poor ol' Gregg is literally coming apart at the seams. Maybe I'll ask for a new one for X-mas. :)
Jena Macato
Nov 17, 2009
Jennie Ann
I keep going back and forth with comma placement, and I'd love to hear from y'all about this comma conundrum.
Example A. I went to the store, and, as I opened the door, I saw oranges.
Example B. I went to the store, and as I opened the door, I saw oranges.
Should a comma be after "and" or not? I used to not do it, but I switched my style a while back and am now putting a comma there.
Am I becoming too comma crazy? Please advise. :-)
Nov 26, 2009
Brenda Rogers
Nov 26, 2009
Jennie Ann
Please let me throw one more out at you.
Example A. I went to the store, but, when I saw him, I ran away.
Example B. I went to the store, but when I saw him, I ran away.
Which is your preference?
Nov 27, 2009
Brenda Rogers
And thank you! :)
Nov 27, 2009
Jennie Ann
Example A. We have a 20-percent inflation rate.
Example B. We have a 20 percent inflation rate.
My overloaded brain is telling me that it should be Example A. I never see it that way, though. I think that "20 percent" is almost like a descriptive adjective for "inflation rate." What do y'all think about hyhen usage with percentages?
Dec 7, 2009
Christine Kirley
I agree with Brenda; the comma before "and "is sufficient, as well as the comma before "but" in your other example.
Dec 7, 2009
Keith Rowan II
Dec 31, 2009
Jennie Ann
I see it is available on Amazon, but it's over 100 bucks. They do offer it on Kindle. You know, if I could get a bunch of reference books on a Kindle, I might buy one. I can see how that would be handy having a bunch of reference sources in one Kindle by my desk.
Thanks for the great info, Keith! :-)
Jan 1, 2010
Marla Sharp
Jan 2, 2010
Jennie Ann
This reminds me of one term that keeps popping up, and that is "half-a-dozen." I always tend to hyphenate it.
Example A. We bought a half-a-dozen.
Example B. We bought a half a dozen.
A or B, which do you like?
Jan 6, 2010
Jennie Ann
Thanks for the reply on the "half a dozen." :-)
Did you receive the latest Jane Strauss Grammar Book "English Tip of the Week" e-mail about "onto" and "on to"? Wow! That was a great tip she shared. I always get those two confused.
For those who may not have received it, here's a copy-and-paste:
On to vs. Onto
An inquisitive reader asked the following question:
When do you use on to vs. onto?
Answer: Use onto as one word if you can add up before on.
Example: He climbed (up) onto the roof.
Example: She held on to her child in the crowd. (She did not hold up her child.)
Jan 6, 2010
Stacy Tegner
Jan 6, 2010
Christine Kirley
Thanks for sharing the "on" "onto" tip. It's so nice and easy.
How do you get signed up for those grammar tips?
Jan 6, 2010
Marla Sharp
Jan 6, 2010
Jennie Ann
BTW, Christine and Stacy, if you want to get weekly e-mails for the "English Tip of the Week" from Jane Straus, it's FREE: Scroll Down to the Bottom and sign up for FREE Weekly e-Newsletter
Sometimes I do learn new things from this weekly e-mail. I really enjoy it.
Jan 8, 2010
Christine Kirley
Thanks for the hypertext on the newsletterr. I will check it out. Have a good weekend.
Jan 8, 2010
Heidi J. Ryder
Jan 10, 2010
Rosalie DeLeonardis
Effect vs. Affect
Knowing whether to use effect or affect may not qualify you as a genius, but you will be demonstrating an understanding about a grammar issue most people find perplexing. I trust that the strategies offered here will clear up any confusion you have had.
Rule: Use the verb effect when you mean bring about or brought about, cause or caused.
Example: He effected a commotion in the crowd.
Example: She effected a change in procedure.
Rule: Use the noun effect when you mean result.
Example: What effect did that speech have?
Rule: Also use the noun effect whenever any of these words precede it: a, an, any, the, take, into, no.
Note: These words may be separated from effect by an adjective.
Example: That book had a long-lasting effect on my thinking.
Rule: Use the verb affect when you mean to influence rather than to cause.
Example: How do the budget cuts affect your staffing?
Rule: Affect is also used as a noun to mean emotional expression.
Example: She showed little affect when told she had won the lottery.
Jan 10, 2010
Jennie Ann
Two words I see punctuated incorrectly quite often when proofing transcripts today are "follow up" and "follow-up."
Example for "follow up": I will follow up on that lead.
Example for "follow-up": After the meeting, I will send you a follow-up.
Example for "follow-up": The doctor said I need a follow-up examination.
"Follow up" with no hyphen is the verb. "Follow-up" with the hyphen is the noun and/or descriptive adjective preceding the noun.
Jan 12, 2010
Rosalie DeLeonardis
Jan 12, 2010
Christine Kirley
Jan 12, 2010
Marla Sharp
Jun 4, 2011
Quyen
How would you write: f-ing or f'ing?
That's what the witness really said several times. I like f-ing better.
Thanks!
Oct 1, 2011
Janiece Young
Quyen, I saw a close caption just yesterday that had "effing." I think it's better to do f'ing or f-ing.
My preference is f'ing.
Janiece
Oct 1, 2011
Quyen
Haha, I've used effing in more casual online forums, never in hard-copy writing. :D
Still debating f'ing vs. f-ing. :)
Oct 1, 2011
Quyen
Okay, I just had a revelation. One wouldn't write wouldn-t or can-t, so it makes sense to write f'ing instead of f-ing.
Thanks, Janiece! ;)
Oct 1, 2011
Marla Sharp
I'd use the apostrophe. I do the same thing with CC'ing, CC'd, etc.
Oct 1, 2011
LeAnne Law
Oct 1, 2011
Quyen
Attorney's fees or attorneys' fees?
Thanks!
Nov 12, 2011
Marla Sharp
I do "attorneys' fees" because normally there's more than one attorney involved in a case. But if you Google "attorneys fees," you'll see it mostly comes up "attorney's fees."
Nov 12, 2011
Quyen
Thanks, Marla. I agree with your reasoning. I think I do attorneys' fees usually, but sometimes I waiver between the two, depending upon whether the sun is shining or not or if I have my favorite slippers on. I guess I'll try to be consistent and stick with attorneys' fees, like workers' comp.
Nov 12, 2011
Jody Rake
You mean "waver"... : )
Nov 12, 2011
Quyen
Rotflmao! Thanks, Jody! Lol! Waiver just rolled off my fingers so easily I didn't even think twice! That's why an awesome proofer is priceless. Um, you wanna job? :)
Nov 12, 2011
Jody Rake
LOL, Quyen, that is what I do! And I can't turn it off!
Nov 12, 2011
Audrey C. Eaton
I am wondering how you would punctuate the following example. I have seen it punctuated in several ways and I really don't know what is the correct punctuation. I have looked it up in a variety of references, and there is no solid answer that I can find.
When a witness or attorney trails off but is really asking a question.
Example: You said it was ...? or You said it was -- or You said it was?
Thanks for any help you can give me!
Dec 4, 2011
Jody Rake
That seems like a personal preference to me. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Maybe you could ask your favorite attorney if they have a preference.
Dec 4, 2011
Quyen
I used The Gregg Reference Manual. You said it was . . . ? is correct for trailing off. There is one space between each dot and the question mark.
If it's interrupted: You said it was--?
Dec 4, 2011
Audrey C. Eaton
Thanks, Quyen. I have been actually doing it with the . . . ? because I have seen it that way in books, but I didn't know if there was really a right/wrong way. I should have looked more carefully in Gregg's! They always have the answer, I just don't always have the patience :)
Many thanks!
Dec 4, 2011
Quyen
You're welcome, Audrey. I'm a huge (correct) punctuation fan. I totally heart Gregg!
I just spotted a typo (ugh) in my post. I meant to say I USE Gregg, not past tense. :)
Dec 4, 2011
Audrey C. Eaton
I actually just bought a new Gregg's, as my old one was in tatters. I've had it for well-over 15 years, so an update was necessary. I just have to now sit down and move all my markers to the new book. I haven't had the chance to sit down and read it yet, but soon! My other favorite is 1, 2, - by Louise Gilman. Just ordered a new copy of that as well. Sometimes it's just easier (because I am that lazy!!) to throw a question out to the masses and see what happens.
But I truly thank you for taking the time to look this up. I can now tell my reporters the correct way to punctuate this common occurrence in their transcripts.
Dec 4, 2011
Quyen
I've been wanting a new Gregg's for a long time. I've had mine 10+ yrs. now from when I was in CR school. Even my marker tabs are all faded and dog-earred, and poor ol' Gregg is literally coming apart at the seams. Maybe I'll ask for a new one for X-mas. :)
Dec 5, 2011
Janiece Young
How would you punctuate this question?
Thanks,
Janiece
Q. Did you ever have any discussion with anyone, Kevin Smith, Randy Jones, to tell Ms. Black that you had put the coils on the truck?
Dec 11, 2011
LeAnne Law
I'd do it this way:
Q. Did you ever have any discussion with anyone -- Kevin Smith, Randy Jones -- to tell Ms. Black that you had put the coils on the truck.
Dec 11, 2011
Audrey C. Eaton
I agree with LeAnne. Use the dashes.
Dec 11, 2011
Janiece Young
Thanks, ladies.
Dec 11, 2011
Janiece Young
How would you punctuate this question? I'm not sure what to do in the underlined area.
Thanks.
Q. Now, Jones Company maintains some information online; correct, on computers?
Dec 13, 2011
Jody Rake
I would leave it just as it is.
Dec 13, 2011
Janet
I put a comma before correct in instances like that for readability.
Dec 13, 2011
LeAnne Law
Now, Jones Company maintains some information online, correct, on computers?
Morson's Rule 12: "A pair of commas is used to set off the question within the statement."
Dec 13, 2011