copies

[Kyung]

So I see a lot of discussions about the page rate and getting paid. But what about the copies? Yeah, the copies.

Are you guys getting a lot of copy orders or are most of your jobs O&1? Here in Southern California, they do the heinous Southern Cal stip where they relieve us of our duty to maintain the transcript and send the original to the other side, so they don't order a copy. Not so prevalent in Northern Cal.

How old is your oldest outstanding copy order? How old before you write it of as loss and give up on it? Do you ever give up on an outstanding copy order?

Does the agency make you get it on the record, or do they have a form for the attorney to sign? Honestly, I kind of prefer the form. I think it's harder for them to change their minds afterwards.

What percentage of your annual gross does the copy make up? Is it even worth it to go after those small piddly copies?

I'd love to hear your views

[Stacy Tegner]

Hey, Veronica ~ yeah, you don't HAVE to do a stip. We have our rights and duties of how we're supposed to handle the transcript and we don't have to agree to the stip. Attys can stip to many things that we don't have a say in, but we can definitely not agree to that stip. (Basically they can't stipulate our rights under the code if we don't agree) I don't have the code in front of me and I can't remember the wording, but I know the CSR Board takes the stance that since there is no defined law on the matter, if you agree to it, fine, and if you don't, fine ~ and you can't be disciplined either way. I also think the DRA website has something written on this topic, but it's down right now.
I think it's near impossible for you all to change the practice down there (I just hope you get higher O+1 rates than we do to make up for it:) I know a firm owner who actually tried to rally other firm owners to change the practice down there (many years ago) and was actually told by one very large firm owner that if they tried that, they would just solicit their clients and get them, b/c the attorneys will be upset. So, you're right, if you started refusing to do it down there, you'd probably lose clients and work, but you wouldn't be doing anything wrong or illegal ;))

[Rosalie DeLeonardis]

Thank you for responding. I do understand now.

[Stacy Tegner]

Veronica, I respectfully disagree (I did love your story on the off the record "command" ~ it's actually somewhat similar to being told to do the stip:) I feel that as long as we let them do the stip, we devalue our profession. I realize So. Cal is in an extremely tough spot and that it's close to impossible to change such a long-standing custom. But to allow it to happen in other venues would not be productive for the profession as a whole. I know many So. Cal. reporters who hate the stip but feel stuck with it and love that we don't do it up here. I think deciding to stand by our rights as defined in the code of civil procedure shows that we respect our work and what we have to offer ~ we're not telling the attorneys how to do their job; we're just doing ours. I should say, I don't mind doing the stip if the copy side orders a copy or if the O+1 agrees to pay for an extra copy, but otherwise we're giving away work product. I'm trying to think of an example in business where the same scenario would be crazy, but can't come up with one :) I know it's different strokes . . . but it's just my .02 for what it's worth.
Happy weekend all!

[Lisa Breiter]

I am in Chicago. in 2008, my copy sales were about 26% of total sales and so far in 2009, it's about 29%. We get a signed order form for all copies (or are supposed to), but there's a list of really bad pay attorneys who we get paid for COD because even with a signed order form, they don't pay. There's not too many of those, though. A lot of CR firms don't pay the reporter for copies until they get paid, or they have a very extensive COD list where you don't get paid for those copies unless they pay. I think most firms do have a form now. At my agency as long as we get the form signed and they're not on our "bad" list, then we get paid for them and my agency is very aggressive at getting their money. I think you should never let a copy sale go, it sets a bad precedent. Also, if my agency hears that attorneys are copying each other, they just charge the culprit for an 0+1.
The copy sales have dropped off, but I mostly get 0 or 0+1. A month ago or so I got an 0+4, but that was the first time in a long time. We also have a contract with a state agency where we get 0 only dep rates, but you get a lot of pages and the people are nice. When we are slow, they are a Godsend.
Late last year and early this year I've been finding the need for rough drafts are going way up and I'm starting to do lots of realtime hookups as well. I've been finding this is the way to defeat the less copies because if I sell a rough draft to each side, it's about the same as an extra copy, maybe a little more. It's more work to do a rough draft, but at least it's a vehicle where income can potentially go up so I'm trying to concentrate on that instead of where it can go down.

[Andrea "Andi" Simonis]

What other things in the U.S. (and maybe anywhere) have stayed the same price for as long as copy page rates to the freelance reporter have? Also just a note to Stacy about how lucky you are to be paid "fast" on copy orders. That is very far and few in between here in So. Cal. (if we even get copy orders anymore). Even though I've been doing this for awhile, I'm not sure I have the nerve to refuse to stip. You go, girl! Then again, they'll take your head off if you mention the word "stip" in a USDC case. At least there's a copy. Oh well, guess it could always be worse :)

[Stacy Tegner]

Hey Kyung ~ you guys are stuck in a bad situation down there. Up here in N. Ca we don't do the stip. I either just refuse or say we'll do it, but tell the O+1 atty he/she has to pay for the copy for the witness's atty ~ it depends on the cr firm I'm working for. I rarely get O+1s, but it does happen once in a while. Most copies are paid pretty fast ~ sometimes faster than the originals :) I also just get the copy order on the record ~ I didn't used to and had some bad experiences of I said/they said, so it's just easier.
As a side note, (I might have given this story before ~ if so, I apologize in advance:) I refused to do the stip way back when I was first starting (like '94-ish). It was the first time I had heard of "the stip" and the O+1 atty was brand new too. They copy atty actually got really, really angry at my refusal saying, "You work for Mr. X (O+1) and he's agreeing so you have to do it." I had to remind him I worked for nobody but the court ~ I was shaking in my heels :)) He actually complained to the CSR Board and they sent him (cc'ed me) a letter saying that although there are many things attys can stip to, they can't stip away the right of the reporter!! I used to carry that letter w/ me for reference, but have since stopped ~ I find the suggestion that they'll pay for opposing party's copy is usually sufficient enough:)

[Rosalie DeLeonardis]

Melissa, I'm a little confused on your response regarding asking the attorney if he also wants a copy along with the original because it is an automatic 0&1 for the noticing attorney. Are you saying he orders an additional copy? Just curious.

[Patricia Babits]

I live in Northern CA and I almost always get O & 2. I haven't been able to collect on two copies in five years. The agencies did try for almost a year, but I left it at that and didn't follow up on it.

Most firms I work for want copies orders on the record. One big firm I did only two jobs for has an order form.

I never figured out what percentage of my income is from copy sales.

[Rosalie DeLeonardis]

I would definitely go after copy pay no matter how small. I put all orders on the record, but I have had attorneys call a few days later and cancel the copy. It's only happened once where the copy attorney requested a rough draft, and a few days later received the final job did she call and say case settled and she not longer needed it, but it was too late to cancel. She was very nice about it and still paid.

I don't know what my percentage is on my copy sales. I live in Northern Cal, but when I did a lot of work in Sacramento County almost 90 percent of my jobs were 0&1, but now that I've moved to San Joaquin County I'm back up to 99.9 percent of jobs being 0&2. When I have attorneys that release the original to the other party, I just tell my firm and they charge a higher page rate since he's giving the other side a copy for free!