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And More FREE Roughs . . . Really?
Okay, I'm just a TAD peeved, to say the least. On a job right now. I just had an attorney say to me this morning, "I'll take a mini, electronic and regular. I'll take a rough if there's no charge."
I asked him which firms were giving away free roughs. He said two firms that he uses all the time. (Please don't use any of the firms I work for -- EVER.) I asked for names. He wouldn't say specifically, only that they are small firms in San Jose. Well, there goes your argument for small firms being so "ethical" and "righteous," giving away your hard work for free. Then again he could be simply lying to me to see what I'd/we'd be willing to give him for FREE, if anything.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dean Morris on
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Hello, Quyen,
I wrote my post based on your post. It is my opinion. I did not speak "down" to you. I did not use "dear." In fact, I tried to make the upsetting-to-you post uninflammatory by writing, "But that's how we all learn," we, as in we all make mistakes of different types. Everyone is permitted to post their opinion and to be treated in a professional, non-mean-spirited way.
Hi, Mary Ann,
In New York, I am not familiar with agencies that do not pay for rough ASCIIs, although there is extreme culture shock in that NY agencies seem to pay $.25 for a copy. They smile when they tell you this, and, although they know copies are paid for in other areas of the country, their reasoning for the $.25 p/c is that that's just how it's "always" been done. Reporters need to compensate for this by charging more for the original rate they quote to the agency. After all, my understanding (and perhaps David Levy might know better) is that some agencies provide a copy to the opposing counsel free of charge for the witness to sign. Why? There are all different electronic methods today, in 2012, where providing a free copy to opposing counsel to sign should never occur. I used to work in an area of the country where counsel paid for the 0 + 2, and the Original price paid to the reporter was significantly increased, to compensate for the zero-paid copy.
On another forum, David Levy wrote some comments about freelance-court-reporting unionization in NY, that there had been such a thing in the past, but dissolved about fifteen or so years ago. I know nothing of this, but I find this idea fascinating. Rates to the reporter have remained stagnant for decades, the rates paid to the reporter. Have the people who work for the freelance agencies received increases in their pay in the past decades? I suspect they have. Have there been more people taking a piece of the court-reporter pie, such as, "salesmen"? But the reporter-paid rates are stagnant. Something has to change. Reporters are writing about this dissatisfaction on many forums. Can't we, as freelance reporters, nationwide, statewide, citywide, unionize? It's not enough to "stand tough," because, as we know, there are reporters who are undercutters. I'd love to see freelance-court-reporter unions, where page rates are mandated and increase with age.
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Permalink Reply by Carol A. on
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I'm from New York, and you're exactly right about copies, and also it's always an O & 2. It's always been that way and it is part of the stipulations for a regular deposition. We supply the taking attorney with the O & 2, and he sends a copy to the other side for his witness to sign. Our rates are not the best. I do remember when there were unionized agencies in New York. I had never worked for one, but heard they had great rates! I have gotten page raises, but not for a long time now. I have also heard on this forum about states where they don't automatically write up, so I feel I can't complain now. I do get paid extra for roughs though. I wish we could unionize again, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I am sure it ended because agencies were popping up all over the place and offering extremely low rates, which the union reporting agencies couldn't compete with. Of course this is just a guess on my part, I don't really know what happened to them.
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Permalink Reply by Quyen on
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There was certainly an air of omniscient superiority in your comment, "I just meant it was emotional and naiive." Yes, everyone is entitled to his/her opinions, but who are you to judge me as being "emotional" and "naiive" [sic]? You don't even know me. And it's "naive," by the way. Now you're saying I made some mistake when you said, "But that's how we all learn"? What mistake did I make? By asking questions? Wow. I wasn't being "mean-spirited"; I don't take well to insulting and condescending comments, particularly when they are directed at me. However you want to spin it now, that is exactly how it came across.
Oh, and to just automatically, blindly insist, without asking any further questions, that there is no such thing as "allegedly free roughs," to me, is naive.
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Permalink Reply by Rachel Marco on
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I agree as far as trying to unionize and get our rates back. If you were referring to me by "stand tough", that is not what I am doing. Those undercutters can take the jobs. Hopefully the agencies will find their work to be suitable. That is fine. Mine is just a personal decision in the fact that I would rather simply be out of this industry if that is what I will be paid. Not a threat. Just a decision based on being "on-call" and feeling that alone is worth something to me monetarily along with busts after I have taken the time to get to a job.
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Do any of you provide clients/attorneys with a Rate Sheet? When the depo is set you could send a confirmation email to the attorney or secretary, "Thank you for ---. Attached is our rate sheet which ---". At a depo and someone asks the costs of X, hand them a rate sheet - which would have all the possible charges (like a restaurant menu has).
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Mary Jo, I believe many reporters work for CR firms as independent contractors, so the attorneys are clients of the CR firm and not the reporters' clients. As such, we, as reporters, are not in a position to establish rates for the attorneys/secretaries; the CR firms do that. However, there are some areas/states where reporters are/could be employees of the CR firms.
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I agree with you, Quyen. I have no idea what my agency is charging a client. If an attorney has a question about rates, I give them the agency number to call for information. I could never quote a price for a client or even to another attorney for a copy price, I have no idea how much she's charging.
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Carol, when I first started reporting, I (we) did know what the firm was charging the clients, because the CR firm gave us a rate sheet that it charged the clients, and we figured out how much we were being paid for a job by calculating the page rate and total number of pages and whatever other charges, and then we took a flat percentage of that. I don't remember exactly what that percentage was anymore, but I think it was somewhere around 68% (if we did not print the transcript) and 70% (if we printed) to the reporter. That was the only firm I've worked for to have ever done it that way. Very transparent -- wonderful! Of course, that practice has probably been completely done away with and is now replaced by flat page rates to the reporter; this way, CR firms could raise rates to the clients without having to pay the reporters more. I think it would probably be safe to assume that CR firms are taking about 35% of the O & 1 and 50% of copies, among other things that CR firms charge clients for, for which reporters are not paid. There are exceptions, however, like NY, where, as stated previously in this thread, copies are $0.25, which I'm shocked to learn.
Well, duh, sorry, Carol. You were the one who mentioned the $0.25 copy rate in NY; I was just too lazy to go back to check. :)
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I think I would throw up if I knew what the agency was charging the attorneys for a copy. Although I do hear that the agencies are only making money on copies, and that we are being paid close to what the agencies are charging for an O & 2. I am not sure what the percentage is though. This is probably why we are not allowed to talk about rates online, some reporters would have a heart attack if they heard what other rates were around the country. I know I probably would, haha :)
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Hi, Carol,
I think David wrote the end of the unionization of freelance reporters had something to do with the advent of the internet and that agencies no longer had reporters in their offices whom they could see. I didn't quite understand what he meant, but I'd like to learn more.
Let's keep our eyes open and the thought forefront in our minds. I've spoken with a few reporters recently who are so unhappy that they want all reporters to bond together. A union would do that. I really don't know much about it, but I would like to learn more.
In speaking about roughs or any services that an attorney says have been offered elsewhere free of charge, I would suggest a reporter be prepared for this kind of "alleged" truth and have a calm, professional, non-snarky response to the attorney, which basically says that the rough is a specialized service, for which there is a fee.
Norma Rae
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Deanna, not that I need to explain anything to you, but I had a very calm conversation with him, and there was nothing "snarky" in my saying to him he probably doesn't want a rough since there is a charge. Just get off whatever high horse you rode in on, okay?
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Who was Norma Rae?
"Norma Rae is a 1979 American drama film that tells the story of a factory worker from a small town in North Carolina, who becomes involved in the labor union activities at the textile factory where she works. The film stars Sally Field in the titular role, Beau Bridges as Norma Rae's husband, Sonny, and Ron Leibman as union organizer Reuben Warshowsky.
"Sally Field won the Academy Award for Best Actress for her portrayal as Norma Rae Webster. Norma Rae won a total of 2 awards, plus 6 other nominations.[1] The film was selected for inclusion in the National Film Registry of the Library of Congress in 2011.
"Norma Rae Webster is a minimum-wage worker in a cotton mill that has taken too much of a toll on the health of her family for her to ignore her Dickensian working conditions. After hearing a speech by New York union organizer Reuben Warshowsky, Norma Rae decides to join the effort to unionize her shop. This causes conflict at home when Norma Rae's husband Sonny says she's not spending enough time in the home. Despite the pressure brought to bear by management, when confronted, Norma Rae takes a piece of cardboard, writes the word "UNION" in block letters, stands on her worktable, and slowly turns to show the sign around the room. One by one, other workers stop their mill machines, and eventually, the entire room becomes silent, after all machines have been switched off. Norma Rae then successfully orchestrates an election to unionize the factory, resulting in victory for the union.
"The story is based on Crystal Lee Sutton's life as a textile worker in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina, where the battle for the workers union took place against a J.P Stevens Textile mill. Her actual protest, in the mill, is the scene in the film where she writes the sign "UNION" and stands on her worktable until all machines are silent. Although Sutton was fired from her job, the mill became unionized, and she later went to work as an organizer for the textile union."
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